<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Andras,</div><div><br><div>I just want to offer some quick thoughts on the rationale presented by Dr. Lesperance for why this change is being advanced.</div><div><br></div><div>I believe we should reject the premise that, "All [students who take a year or two (or more) off between the pre-clinical and clinical years] should have the same chance to express their preferences for certain schedules as other students." Fairness does not always mean treating everyone exactly the same way; it means treating everyone equitably. As Dr. Lesperance is well aware, MD/PhD programs require students sacrifice 4-5 years on our path to becoming practicing professionals. We do this in order to develop skills that will allows us to make unique contributions to healthcare. The program offers incentives in line with the importance of this training to both Upstate and the larger health system, as well as to balance the sacrifice we make to get it. Our priority during track selection is part of the deal we were offered by the medical school. It's a small part of the deal, but it's incredibly valuable to us. I will defer to our alumni on elaborating the reasons that this is such a high priority.</div><div><br></div><div>I agree with Dr. Lesperance that there are arguments to made in favour of offering the same treatment to other students who do not progress directly from MS2 to MS3, however those arguments need to be made on their own merits. It wouldn't be unreasonable to consider offering a similar perk as a way of encouraging more students to pursue an MD/MPH; it's simply a question of how much CoM values this type of training, and how much these trainees would value the accommodation. Similarly, in the case of individuals who take time off due to academic challenges during the pre-clinical years, offering preference in track selection may be an appropriate way of supporting these vulnerable students as they progress in their training; however, that is a separate discussion that I will leave to student affairs. I'm all for those conversations happening, but they have no bearing on the topic at hand.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your and Dr. Kotula's energetic support in this.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>~ Alan Blayney</div><div><br></div><div>MD/PhD Candidate, Loh Lab<br>Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, SUNY Upstate Medical University</div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583797829000_LESPERAL@upstate.edu_7040A901226F0000ACB3000000000000_"><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583797829000_LESPERAL@upstate.edu_7040A901226F0000ACB3000000000000_"><div><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583777167000_BlystonS@upstate.edu_7DF0B14005180000872F0060B03D84AF_"><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583777166000_BlystonS@upstate.edu_7DF0B14005180000872F0060B03D84AF_"><div><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583774364000_PERLA@upstate.edu_1DEAD2A03185000084320060B03D84AF_"><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583774126000_BlystonS@upstate.edu_7DF0B14005180000872F0060B03D84AF_"><div type="text/css" name="Author"><div><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583756200000_perla@upstate.edu_1DEAD2A03185000084320060B03D84AF_"><div id="m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_2156509231128771127gmail-m_5560885713034309084gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583754335000_BlystonS@upstate.edu_7DF0B14005180000872F0060B03D84AF_">
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<span style="margin-bottom:5px;display:block"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:01 AM Andras Perl <<a href="mailto:PERLA@upstate.edu" target="_blank">PERLA@upstate.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Dear Leann:</div>
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<div>I understand the urgency around the coronavirus, which should take precedence.</div>
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<div>Certainly, we can delay this to the point that it should not affect MD/PhD students returning to medical school next May.</div>
<div>We have spoken with all students last night. They are all very concerned about the policy change which they fill would adverse affect their career development.</div>
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<div>Thank you for your consideration.</div>
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<div>Andras</div>
<div id="gmail-m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1584014055000_PERLA@upstate.edu_1DEAD2A03185000084320060B03D84AF_"><span>>>> Leann Lesperance <<a href="mailto:lesperal@upstate.edu" target="_blank">lesperal@upstate.edu</a>> 3/11/2020 8:30 PM >>><br></span>
<div>Your students already were able to pick their schedules for this year. Given the current situation with which we are dealing, I need to push a meeting with you off for a while.
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<div>Thanks for your understanding. </div>
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<div>Leann<br><br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 11, 2020, at 20:02, Leszek Kotula <<a href="mailto:KotulaL@upstate.edu" target="_blank">KotulaL@upstate.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Hello Leann,</font> </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Thank you for your explanations.</font> </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">I do agree with Andras that we should meet and discuss the matter.</font> </div><br>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Could we please meet in the nearest future?</font> </div><br>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Thank you!</font> </div><br>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Best regards,</font> </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Leszke</font> </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br><br>>>> Leann Lesperance 3/9/2020 8:26 PM >>><br></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I appreciate Scott asking about this and bringing it to your attention. </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I didn't accurately explain the situation at today's MCAEC meeting. </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">First, I misspoke about curriculum committee. You are a representative to the committee but it wouldn't have mattered because the policy was not discussed at curriculum committee. It is not a curriculum committee policy. It is from the registrar's office and student affairs. The registrar's office asked for this change and the UME office supported it. I am copying Jennifer Martin Tse to let her know of the concerns raised today. </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Second, I didn't explain the reason for the change. Every year, we have students who take a year or two (or more) off between the pre-clinical and clinical years - some who are formally enrolled in the MD/PhD program, and others for different reasons. All of these students should have the same chance to express their preferences for certain schedules as other students. These preferences will be taken into consideration when the schedules are assigned. </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">If any students are concerned about their clinical skills having atrophied during the time off, we can arrange for a clinical skills refresher boot-camp prior to the first clerkship. Arguably this is something we should offer to all students returning from a "gap" year or two or four (whether they ask for it or not). The clerkships, including IM, expect students to be at a certain level with their clinical skills. Students who have been away may find that their preceptors evaluate them more harshly if they are re-learning skills during the first weeks of their first rotation. I will look into planning this for the incoming class. I think there should be room for a session during orientation. </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Note that this change (to MD/PhD students following the same selection procedure as all students other than RMED - who have no choice) is planned to take effect next year. </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion from earlier today. Please feel free to contact Jennifer or me with any further questions. </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Leann </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span>>>> Leszek Kotula 3/9/2020 2:21 PM >>><br></span></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Thank you Scott!</font> </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Best,</font> </div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Leszek</font><br><br>>>> Scott Blystone 3/9/2020 2:07 PM >>><br></div></div>
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<div id="gmail-m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583777167000_BlystonS@upstate.edu_7DF0B14005180000872F0060B03D84AF_">
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I only felt it my responsibility to check awareness of this policy change. Now that the program directors are informed and in contact with Dr. Lesperance, I think it best if I bow out here. I wish you all a suitable resolution of interests. </div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="display:block"><br></span><span><span>Scott D. Blystone, Ph.D.<br>Associate Professor of Cell & Developmental Biology<br>SUNY Upstate Medical University<br>750 East Adams<br>Syracuse, NY 13210<br>TEL (315) 464-8512<br>FAX (315) 464-8535<br>Cell (315) 256-3083<br></span></span></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span>>>> Leszek Kotula 3/9/2020 2:05 PM >>><br></span></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Thank you Scott so much!</font> </div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Our MD/PhD program coordinator attended the meeting in the past. New hire, Tanner Thompson just started last month.</font> </div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">What was the rationale beyond the proposing the change?</font> </div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">The flexibility supported MD/PhD students getting back to clinical years after a spending 4 years doing research for their PhD degree! </font></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Thanks,</font> </div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="4" face="Arial">Leszek</font> </div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br><br>>>> Andras Perl 3/9/2020 1:21 PM >>><br></div></div></div>
<div id="gmail-m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583774364000_PERLA@upstate.edu_1DEAD2A03185000084320060B03D84AF_">
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Thank you Scott. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">That is good news from our persopective. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">We would of course attend, especially if the policy affects the Program. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I copy dr. Lesperance so she can share the rationale. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Andras </div></div></div></div>
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<div id="gmail-m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583774126000_BlystonS@upstate.edu_7DF0B14005180000872F0060B03D84AF_">
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span>>>> Scott Blystone 3/9/2020 1:18 PM >>><br></span></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Leann Lesperance, representing curriculum, informed me at the MCAEC meeting that the MD/PhD program rep to the curriculum cmte does not attend, which may be why you were unaware. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">After some discussion, it was unclear why this aspect of the policy was being changed. It did not seem like it was understood there was a rationale for allowing the 3rd yr reentry students have first choice. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Dr. Lesperance said she would reach out to the program to consult. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">MCAEC did not endorse the policy change as written. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Regards, </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="display:block"><br></span><span>Scott D. Blystone, Ph.D.<br>Associate Professor of Cell & Developmental Biology<br>SUNY Upstate Medical University<br>750 East Adams<br>Syracuse, NY 13210<br>TEL (315) 464-8512<br>FAX (315) 464-8535<br>Cell (315) 256-3083<br></span></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span>>>> Andras Perl 3/9/2020 8:24 AM >>><br></span></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Thank you Scott for bringing this to our attention. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I don't recollect having been formally asked or informed about this. Along the grapevine, I heard from students returning to medical school this May that some changes were contemplated. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Hi Lisa: since you sent out this memo, can you provide additional info and the rationale behind this. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I also copy Steve since he is on the committee and may have some procedural insight.<br></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Thank you.<br></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Andras<br></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span> </span><span><br><br>>>> Scott Blystone 03/09/20 7:54 AM >>><br></span></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">The MCAEC has been asked to approve the attached document for Dean Chen's signature, thus changing Upstate policy. This document eliminates the option for MD/PhD students to have preference in selection of clinical tracks. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">This vote is at noon today, please respond ASAP. </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Thanks.<br></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><span style="display:block"><br></span><span>Scott D. Blystone, Ph.D.<br>Associate Professor of Cell & Developmental Biology<br>SUNY Upstate Medical University<br>750 East Adams<br>Syracuse, NY 13210<br>TEL (315) 464-8512<br>FAX (315) 464-8535<br>Cell (315) 256-3083<br></span></div></div></div>
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<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Leszek Kotula <<a href="mailto:kotulal@upstate.edu" target="_blank">kotulal@upstate.edu</a>><br>To: Liam Coyne <<a href="mailto:CoyneL@upstate.edu" target="_blank">CoyneL@upstate.edu</a>><br>Cc: Andras Perl <<a href="mailto:PERLA@upstate.edu" target="_blank">PERLA@upstate.edu</a>><br>Bcc: <br>Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 21:12:47 -0400<br>Subject: Re: Urgent MD/PhD program<br><div dir="auto">Thank you Liam! <br><br><div dir="ltr">Best regards,<div>Leszek</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Mar 11, 2020, at 9:07 PM, Liam Coyne <<a href="mailto:CoyneL@upstate.edu" target="_blank">CoyneL@upstate.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Thanks for this. It’s hardly understandable in my opinion. There’s a very clear distinction between taking one year off (two max) for MPH, and getting your PhD for four (or five in my case) years. And wouldn’t a better solution be to simply allow the MPH students to choose their track too?<div><br></div><div>And to top it all off there was never any MD/PhD program representation? All the more reason for a fully funded MD/PhD coordinator position.</div><div><br></div><div>I will talk to other students and former students tonight and email Dean White (and CC you guys) tomorrow. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Liam</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Mar 11, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Leszek Kotula <<a href="mailto:KotulaL@upstate.edu" target="_blank">KotulaL@upstate.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
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<font size="4" face="Arial">FYI - let me know what you think - Leszek</font><br><br>>>> Leszek Kotula 3/11/2020 8:02 PM >>><br> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Hello Leann,</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Thank you for your explanations.</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">I do agree with Andras that we should meet and discuss the matter.</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Could we please meet in the nearest future?</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Thank you!</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Best regards,</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Leszke</font> </p>
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>>> Leann Lesperance 3/9/2020 8:26 PM >>><br> </p>
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Hello Leszek, </p>
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I appreciate Scott asking about this and bringing it to your attention. </p>
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I didn't accurately explain the situation at today's MCAEC meeting. </p>
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First, I misspoke about curriculum committee. You are a representative to the committee but it wouldn't have mattered because the policy was not discussed at curriculum committee. It is not a curriculum committee policy. It is from the registrar's office and student affairs. The registrar's office asked for this change and the UME office supported it. I am copying Jennifer Martin Tse to let her know of the concerns raised today. </p>
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Second, I didn't explain the reason for the change. Every year, we have students who take a year or two (or more) off between the pre-clinical and clinical years - some who are formally enrolled in the MD/PhD program, and others for different reasons. All of these students should have the same chance to express their preferences for certain schedules as other students. These preferences will be taken into consideration when the schedules are assigned. </p>
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If any students are concerned about their clinical skills having atrophied during the time off, we can arrange for a clinical skills refresher boot-camp prior to the first clerkship. Arguably this is something we should offer to all students returning from a "gap" year or two or four (whether they ask for it or not). The clerkships, including IM, expect students to be at a certain level with their clinical skills. Students who have been away may find that their preceptors evaluate them more harshly if they are re-learning skills during the first weeks of their first rotation. I will look into planning this for the incoming class. I think there should be room for a session during orientation. </p>
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Note that this change (to MD/PhD students following the same selection procedure as all students other than RMED - who have no choice) is planned to take effect next year. </p>
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I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion from earlier today. Please feel free to contact Jennifer or me with any further questions. </p>
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Leann </p>
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<span>>>> Leszek Kotula 3/9/2020 2:21 PM >>><br></span> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Thank you Scott!</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Best,</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Leszek</font><br><br>>>> Scott Blystone 3/9/2020 2:07 PM >>><br> </p>
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I only felt it my responsibility to check awareness of this policy change. Now that the program directors are informed and in contact with Dr. Lesperance, I think it best if I bow out here. I wish you all a suitable resolution of interests. </p>
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</span><span style="font-size:10pt"><span>Scott D. Blystone, Ph.D.<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt">Associate Professor of Cell & Developmental Biology<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt">SUNY Upstate Medical University<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt">750 East Adams<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt">Syracuse, NY 13210<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt">TEL (315) 464-8512<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt">FAX (315) 464-8535<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt">Cell (315) 256-3083<br style="display:inline-block;font-size:10pt"></span></span> </p>
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<span>>>> Leszek Kotula 3/9/2020 2:05 PM >>><br></span> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Thank you Scott so much!</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Our MD/PhD program coordinator attended the meeting in the past. New hire, Tanner Thompson just started last month.</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">What was the rationale beyond the proposing the change?</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">The flexibility supported MD/PhD students getting back to clinical years after a spending 4 years doing research for their PhD degree! </font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Thanks,</font> </p>
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<font face="Arial" size="4">Leszek</font> </p>
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>>> Andras Perl 3/9/2020 1:21 PM >>><br> </p>
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Thank you Scott. </p>
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That is good news from our persopective. </p>
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We would of course attend, especially if the policy affects the Program. </p>
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I copy dr. Lesperance so she can share the rationale. </p>
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Andras </p>
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<span>>>> Scott Blystone 3/9/2020 1:18 PM >>><br></span> </p>
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Leann Lesperance, representing curriculum, informed me at the MCAEC meeting that the MD/PhD program rep to the curriculum cmte does not attend, which may be why you were unaware. </p>
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After some discussion, it was unclear why this aspect of the policy was being changed. It did not seem like it was understood there was a rationale for allowing the 3rd yr reentry students have first choice. </p>
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Dr. Lesperance said she would reach out to the program to consult. </p>
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MCAEC did not endorse the policy change as written. </p>
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Regards, </p>
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</span><span>Scott D. Blystone, Ph.D.<br>Associate Professor of Cell & Developmental Biology<br>SUNY Upstate Medical University<br>750 East Adams<br>Syracuse, NY 13210<br>TEL (315) 464-8512<br>FAX (315) 464-8535<br>Cell (315) 256-3083<br></span> </p>
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<span>>>> Andras Perl 3/9/2020 8:24 AM >>><br></span> </p>
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Thank you Scott for bringing this to our attention. </p>
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I don't recollect having been formally asked or informed about this. Along the grapevine, I heard from students returning to medical school this May that some changes were contemplated. </p>
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Hi Lisa: since you sent out this memo, can you provide additional info and the rationale behind this. </p>
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I also copy Steve since he is on the committee and may have some procedural insight.<br> </p>
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Thank you.<br> </p>
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Andras<br> </p>
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<div id="gmail-m_8293232870649752994gmail-m_1661411377665059251GroupWiseSection_1583756200000_perla@upstate.edu_1DEAD2A03185000084320060B03D84AF_">
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<span> </span><span><br><br>>>> Scott Blystone 03/09/20 7:54 AM >>><br></span> </p>
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The MCAEC has been asked to approve the attached document for Dean Chen's signature, thus changing Upstate policy. This document eliminates the option for MD/PhD students to have preference in selection of clinical tracks. </p>
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Were you aware of this change and do you support it? </p>
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This vote is at noon today, please respond ASAP. </p>
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Thanks.<br> </p>
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</span><span>Scott D. Blystone, Ph.D.<br>Associate Professor of Cell & Developmental Biology<br>SUNY Upstate Medical University<br>750 East Adams<br>Syracuse, NY 13210<br>TEL (315) 464-8512<br>FAX (315) 464-8535<br>Cell (315) 256-3083<br></span> </p>
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