[womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

Wed Sep 27 19:48:46 EDT 2023

Maternity leave (or lack thereof) may be relevant to this exploration as well. When I hear “some women were working fewer hours”, I wonder if this reduction in hours and thereby pay is a reflection of workarounds to address lack of benefits relevant to childbirth and childcare.

Cheers,
Rachel

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2023, at 6:27 PM, Winter Berry <BerryW at upstate.edu> wrote:

To the topic of statistics on hidden/unpaid/non promotable work- I’d recommend the book Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez.

Winter Berry, DO, FAAP
Immediate Past President, AAP New York Chapter 1
Medical Director, Pediatric Grand Rounds
Associate Professor of Pediatrics
Upstate Golisano Children’s Hospital
Upstate Pediatric and Adolescent Center
725 E. Adams St., Syracuse, NY
P: 315-464-2045
F: 315-464-2030
________________________________
From: Womeninmed <womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu> on behalf of Jessica L. Ridilla <RidillaJ at upstate.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 6:24:22 PM
To: Zulma Tovar Spinoza <TovarSpZ at upstate.edu>
Cc: womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu <womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu>
Subject: Re: [womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

also related (probably not possible), I don't think anyone would reject at least a 10 percent bump to cover the insane inflation the last few years.

many studies emphasize women do more "hidden" labor often missed by classic measures. Starting with covering inflation at least means all the hidden work isn't counted for even less?! Although I honestly don't know what statistics on this would convince the powers that be. I am happy to hunt through peer reviewed work to help if anyone has suggestions!

On Sep 27, 2023 5:49 PM, Zulma Tovar Spinoza <TovarSpZ at upstate.edu> wrote:
The only way to learn the real disparities would be by obtaining the total salaries. Not sure if that is even feasible.

Zulma Tovar-Spinoza MD IFAANS
Professor of Neurosurgery, Neurology and Pediatrics
Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery
Director of Pediatric Epilepsy Surgery Program
Director of Laser Ablation Program
SUNY Upstate Medical University
Upstate University Hospital and Golisano's Children Hospital

Address:

Academic Office:
604 Jacobsen Hall
750 East Adams Street
Syracuse NY 13210

Clinic:
Upstate Brain & Spine Center at
Upstate Community Hospital
Suite 1352
4900 Broad Road
Syracuse NY 13215

Phone: (315) 4923114<tel:(315)%204923114>
Fax: (315) 464 4415<tel:(315)%20464%204415>

On Sep 27, 2023, at 4:52 PM, Jaclyn Sisskind <SisskinJ at upstate.edu> wrote:

I recently attended the WiM summit in Chicago where this issue was discussed.  I am so happy to see this conversation happening at our institution and glad to hear a study is going to look at this more closely!
-Jaclyn
________________________________
From: Womeninmed <womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu> on behalf of Paula Trief <TriefP at upstate.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 4:50 PM
To: Jessica L. Ridilla <RidillaJ at upstate.edu>; Victoria Meguid <MEGUIDV at upstate.edu>; Ann S. Botash <BotashA at upstate.edu>
Cc: womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu <womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu>
Subject: Re: [womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

HI Jess

The statistician first looked at whether gender (or race/ethnicity) predicted salaries within the department, and did not find that they did. He was then able to give us a number (I think it was the mean) for each rank and we looked at each salary that was more than one SD below the mean, and pursued those cases individually. We did NOT look at salaries that were above the mean as the focus was on correcting possible underpayment.

It is true that researchers get salary funds from grants that go to different funds. In most departments, basic scientists’ salary is their state base-but some departments are now drawing from grant dollars to augment salaries. I’ve been away from this for several years, so Ann Botash is the person who would know how things are now being handled.

Best,

Paula

From: Jessica L. Ridilla <RidillaJ at upstate.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 4:42 PM
To: Paula Trief <TriefP at upstate.edu>; Victoria Meguid <MEGUIDV at upstate.edu>; Ann S. Botash <BotashA at upstate.edu>
Cc: womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu
Subject: Re: [womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

Thanks for this response. I appreciate it!!

I think it is more than a bit of a misnomer that basic science faculty get their full salary covered from the state. While this is technically accurate, grant earning faculty generally raise a substantial percentage of their “salary” that goes into other university funds. These percentages can vary by department and circumstances. Perhaps there is a rubric or different strategy should be considered/explored? What was the criteria that “something looked off”?

Jess

From: Womeninmed <womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu>> on behalf of Paula Trief <TriefP at upstate.edu<mailto:TriefP at upstate.edu>>
Date: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 4:27 PM
To: Victoria Meguid <MEGUIDV at upstate.edu<mailto:MEGUIDV at upstate.edu>>, Ann S. Botash <BotashA at upstate.edu<mailto:BotashA at upstate.edu>>
Cc: womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu> <womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu>>
Subject: Re: [womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

HI all

Just to fill in some info about the 2017 salary equity study. We did have an outside expert do it. But it’s a challenge because faculty get their funds from different sources. The Dean does have a total salary that he approves, so used that info. We did it by department, since departments vary so much in terms of responsibilities, salary, etc. When we found something that looked off we asked the chair to explain it- often they were able to do so given the different responsibilities of faculty, e.g., some women were working fewer hours. A few adjustments were made. But the chair was still expected to pay attention to this issue and provide opportunities to all faculty (not just women) if they were being “underpaid.” It was a useful process and keeps the chairs attentive to the issue, but I wouldn’t expect dramatic differences to emerge, especially in the basic sciences for faculty who get their full salary from the state.

Happy to discuss further-

Best,

Paula

From: Womeninmed <womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu>> On Behalf Of Victoria Meguid
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 4:03 PM
To: Ann S. Botash <BotashA at upstate.edu<mailto:BotashA at upstate.edu>>
Cc: womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu>
Subject: Re: [womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

Ann

Thank you for letting people know. The 2017 one was the one I had previously mentioned. So glad it is being updated.

Do you have the 2022 data for Upstate female vs male faculty. Clinical vs Basic Science, and levels?

That would be interesting to know.

Many thanks

Vicki

Sent from my iPhone

Victoria Meguid MD

Clinical Associate Professor Emerita

Department of Pediatrics

Upstate Medical University

Syracuse, NY 13210

On Sep 27, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Ann S. Botash <BotashA at upstate.edu<mailto:BotashA at upstate.edu>> wrote:

Hello all,

This thread has prompted me to let you know that our office is working with the NCOM dean's office and others to perform a salary equity study. A study was performed previously (2017), results were shared, and adjustments made at that time. We are contracting with a third party to assist with the work and once the contract is completed, we will begin. Once we have some data, we can address any issues and formulate a plan.

Also, as another prompt for today's AAMC DEI workshop, our speaker is the AAMC Director of Gender Equity, Diana Lautenberger. I hope you will consider attending. The last session in the series (January 31st at 4pm) is on the topic of gender equity.

Ann

________________________________

From: Womeninmed <womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu>> on behalf of Nienke Dosa <DosaN at upstate.edu<mailto:DosaN at upstate.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 9:14 PM
To: Sylvie Destian <DestianS at upstate.edu<mailto:DestianS at upstate.edu>>; Victoria Meguid <MEGUIDV at upstate.edu<mailto:MEGUIDV at upstate.edu>>
Cc: womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu> <womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu>>
Subject: Re: [womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

It’s important to have a work place that has strategies in place for attaining pay equity, a way to track progress, and a mechanism for addressing concerns when they arise.   Let’s not endure these discouraging experiences alone. Thank you Vicki and Sylvie for your advocacy!

It’s a global issue (article in today’s NYT):

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/21/health/community-health-worker-pay.html?unlocked_article_code=J52yTWaqS1CUOCOmI0xevIY3eUyhKX7NFZnoreb5AR1Qb0MBpG5QbRSDyowJD3F52Dc8KnJA5ZcedZ7Idd8YhT1IzJhuAA-2DajysfqQN_mSQ9NLc7ibZ39FvJUrMDFjEQeKqfWcUnxTyObo2DZZ0C8PS2teSc7FU2All6h_fxV0Wsczto99W-4LxE-o0We9RQe758rropLRq7fT96W8chumTXNytW-lihtLlS5AUMdxjRo7WZ2kPEgsG2iK6kUI4oH1ntyR1VE0bxIhLvSh4LoAvdPoc9Vk9LJGOKE_yv1yVau3aV3n25t5ZzZfgaIn7uMD-j1GNWZMG9Pr_rTHUWWr2zo&smid=url-share__;!!GobTDDpD7A!OHZOVkVFRIp0DmERPXmJ26fDDr4bT08BCJzE16PS_RUJUiJwdtGHGK7_rqBhSHWBS4LVPLxOH4Gpq8LG1Rc3kyLC1ZbuZg$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nytimes.com/2023/09/21/health/community-health-worker-pay.html?unlocked_article_code=J52yTWaqS1CUOCOmI0xevIY3eUyhKX7NFZnoreb5AR1Qb0MBpG5QbRSDyowJD3F52Dc8KnJA5ZcedZ7Idd8YhT1IzJhuAA-2DajysfqQN_mSQ9NLc7ibZ39FvJUrMDFjEQeKqfWcUnxTyObo2DZZ0C8PS2teSc7FU2All6h_fxV0Wsczto99W-4LxE-o0We9RQe758rropLRq7fT96W8chumTXNytW-lihtLlS5AUMdxjRo7WZ2kPEgsG2iK6kUI4oH1ntyR1VE0bxIhLvSh4LoAvdPoc9Vk9LJGOKE_yv1yVau3aV3n25t5ZzZfgaIn7uMD-j1GNWZMG9Pr_rTHUWWr2zo&smid=url-share__;!!GobTDDpD7A!MNZ96o6A3-o1epLl0tljPBCtiV--59lAW9DOwBWzOSVIWg0NIUWn_qXhY2um7UJhPMSna49y87aUPzRpNUXYWJl4oQ$>

Here is our WIMS monthly zoom meeting schedule.

Thursday, October 19, 2023 – 8:00am

Thursday, November 16, 2023 – 8:00am

Thursday, December 21, 2023 – 8:00am

Thursday, January 18, 2024 – 8:00am

Thursday, February 15, 2024 – 8:00am

Thursday, March 21, 2024 – 8:00am

Thursday, April 18, 2024 – 8:00am

Thursday, May 16, 2024 – 8:00am

Thursday, June 20, 2024 – 8:00am

Nienke P. Dosa, MD, MPH

Upstate Foundation Professor of Pediatrics

Golisano Center for Special Needs

SUNY Upstate Medical University

Syracuse, NY 13210

p. 315-464-6395 f. 315-464-6398

dosan at upstate.edu<mailto:dosan at upstate.edu>

<image001.png>

From: Womeninmed <womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed-bounces at lists.upstate.edu>> on behalf of Sylvie Destian <DestianS at upstate.edu<mailto:DestianS at upstate.edu>>
Date: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 3:01 PM
To: Victoria Meguid <MEGUIDV at upstate.edu<mailto:MEGUIDV at upstate.edu>>
Cc: womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu> <womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu<mailto:womeninmed at lists.upstate.edu>>
Subject: Re: [womeninmed] Fw: Women in medicine on the national news

Vicki, I wish you luck!

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 26, 2023, at 7:31 AM, Victoria Meguid <MEGUIDV at upstate.edu<mailto:MEGUIDV at upstate.edu>> wrote:

 Sylvie

I agrée. We have to keep working for it.

I was told “ Your husband ( a surgeon) has a good salary, why are you worried?”

Admittedly that was in the 70’s!

I was outraged, which I think is one of the things that spurred me on to try to do what I could for parity etc at Upstate!

Vicki

Sent from my iPhone

Victoria Meguid MD

Clinical Associate Professor Emeritus

Department of Pediatrics

Upstate Medical University

Syracuse, NY 13210

On Sep 26, 2023, at 1:51 AM, Sylvie Destian <DestianS at upstate.edu<mailto:DestianS at upstate.edu>> wrote:

 Nothing’s really changed in 35 years. There’s always a “reason” men make more money. The most preposterous one I was given when I asked for equal pay at USC was “ well he has a 500K mortgage”. The chair failed to consider that the male radiologist was married to a plastic surgeon.  It will not change until the people in charge are predominantly women because men will always want to make more.

Sylvie

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2023, at 12:58 PM, Sandra Jarvis <JarvisS at upstate.edu<mailto:JarvisS at upstate.edu>> wrote:

________________________________

From: Victoria Meguid <meguid54 at yahoo.com<mailto:meguid54 at yahoo.com>>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2023 12:49 PM
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Women in medicine on the national news

...
Could you post this to  WIMS
Thank you.
Vicki

Female doctors earn 74 cents for every male physician, says president of Women in Medicine

 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/F6A7m9pHYu8?si=ks9zJ1PfJR5aVFli__;!!GobTDDpD7A!K5TnuJsCKn4u-bO1pVARYiB0jYELF_p5jG8Vw0hT669etW4OKQWBiH2kdQ7VvwGaZsDUSN0HOE-5rsXwFoU$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/youtu.be/F6A7m9pHYu8?si=ks9zJ1PfJR5aVFli__;!!GobTDDpD7A!K5TnuJsCKn4u-bO1pVARYiB0jYELF_p5jG8Vw0hT669etW4OKQWBiH2kdQ7VvwGaZsDUSN0HOE-5rsXwFoU$>

Sent from my iPhone

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